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	<title>Comments on: Gender in anime: The unloved, or, how I learned to trust fandom and love tsundere.</title>
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	<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/</link>
	<description>Observations and rantings on other people's observations and rantings.</description>
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		<title>By: &#8220;lelangiric&#8221; &#187; The Poetics of Genderbenderism, The Cacophony of Gender</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;lelangiric&#8221; &#187; The Poetics of Genderbenderism, The Cacophony of Gender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-143</guid>
		<description>[...] http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fan... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fan.." rel="nofollow">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fan..</a>. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Poetics of Genderbenderism, The Cacophony of Gender &#171; &#8220;Lelangiric&#8221;, or so they say&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>The Poetics of Genderbenderism, The Cacophony of Gender &#171; &#8220;Lelangiric&#8221;, or so they say&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 00:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-129</guid>
		<description>[...] http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fan... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fan.." rel="nofollow">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fan..</a>. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Karly!</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Karly!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-61</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t get to read this whole thing because I have to shower for class, but this:

&quot;Of course, gender is not irrelevant, and probably never will be, unless everyone in the world acknowledges that they are at least a little bisexual. But enough about my personal idea of Utopia.&quot;

made me laugh my ass off.  So subtle, yet so perfect.

From a psychological point of view, gender is actually quite relevant.  Why else would a man who feels like a woman (gender) trapped inside of a man&#039;s body (sex) feel so encumbered by his sex that he would spend huge amounts of time and money to become the sex that matches his gender?

Gender is a very important, very complex part of an individual&#039;s personality, whether that gender identification is masculine, feminine, or androgenous.

Also, the fact that you&#039;re not FOR women anymore than you&#039;re FAR men basically makes you the best brand of feminist ;)  The kind that aren&#039;t psycho and actually want EQUALITY.  Some feminists try to set women on a pedestal, but one&#039;s sex/ gender does not make them worthy of worship.  In the purest sense of feminism, I beleive that you are a feminist.  Much like I would be a communist if the purest form of socialism could actually survive.  People take good concepts and pervert them.  Pure feminism is simply the belief that men and women should be equal.

Also, feminist is more about equality of the sexes than equality of the genders.  If anything, feminism seeks to shatter the gender roles that have begun the norm.  Thus, true feminism also disregards gender.

I&#039;d almost go as far to say that sex is irrelevant, but sex is so often the outline for gender that I don&#039;t quite feel safe saying that.



omg I miss debating with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t get to read this whole thing because I have to shower for class, but this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Of course, gender is not irrelevant, and probably never will be, unless everyone in the world acknowledges that they are at least a little bisexual. But enough about my personal idea of Utopia.&#8221;</p>
<p>made me laugh my ass off.  So subtle, yet so perfect.</p>
<p>From a psychological point of view, gender is actually quite relevant.  Why else would a man who feels like a woman (gender) trapped inside of a man&#8217;s body (sex) feel so encumbered by his sex that he would spend huge amounts of time and money to become the sex that matches his gender?</p>
<p>Gender is a very important, very complex part of an individual&#8217;s personality, whether that gender identification is masculine, feminine, or androgenous.</p>
<p>Also, the fact that you&#8217;re not FOR women anymore than you&#8217;re FAR men basically makes you the best brand of feminist ;)  The kind that aren&#8217;t psycho and actually want EQUALITY.  Some feminists try to set women on a pedestal, but one&#8217;s sex/ gender does not make them worthy of worship.  In the purest sense of feminism, I beleive that you are a feminist.  Much like I would be a communist if the purest form of socialism could actually survive.  People take good concepts and pervert them.  Pure feminism is simply the belief that men and women should be equal.</p>
<p>Also, feminist is more about equality of the sexes than equality of the genders.  If anything, feminism seeks to shatter the gender roles that have begun the norm.  Thus, true feminism also disregards gender.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d almost go as far to say that sex is irrelevant, but sex is so often the outline for gender that I don&#8217;t quite feel safe saying that.</p>
<p>omg I miss debating with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Gender in Anime: Galge Archetypes at PinkuBentoBox</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Gender in Anime: Galge Archetypes at PinkuBentoBox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-58</guid>
		<description>[...] member of some kind of underground intarweb secret society who all blog about the same thing on the same day. Anilluminati. Or maybe Moejestic 12. Anyway, the current discussion is interesting so I felt [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] member of some kind of underground intarweb secret society who all blog about the same thing on the same day. Anilluminati. Or maybe Moejestic 12. Anyway, the current discussion is interesting so I felt [...]</p>
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		<title>By: omo</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>omo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-57</guid>
		<description>Oops, double negative there. Zero no Tsukaima is lol pr0n fodder in its anime form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, double negative there. Zero no Tsukaima is lol pr0n fodder in its anime form.</p>
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		<title>By: omo</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>omo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-56</guid>
		<description>My theory is simple:
No one likes bitches, but bitches bring revolutions. Sometimes you just gotta be a bitch to get things done.

In that sense, it&#039;s a great and admirable feat to serve alongside one--because you believe in the cause and understands this double-edged necessity. I believe that is why Cornelia&#039;s knights are so badass and that is why Utena &lt;i&gt;drives&lt;/i&gt; like a dream.

But not every story/anime is about getting things done. A silly show like Zero is, well, fantasy-escape porn, and it doesn&#039;t pretend to not be something else. Of course when you stick a bitchy character in a porn it&#039;s to broaden the appeal of your porn, although one may wonder if that is a moot point in Zero&#039;s adaptation. Kirche probably made a lot more sense in the novels, I&#039;d guess (not having read them).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My theory is simple:<br />
No one likes bitches, but bitches bring revolutions. Sometimes you just gotta be a bitch to get things done.</p>
<p>In that sense, it&#8217;s a great and admirable feat to serve alongside one&#8211;because you believe in the cause and understands this double-edged necessity. I believe that is why Cornelia&#8217;s knights are so badass and that is why Utena <i>drives</i> like a dream.</p>
<p>But not every story/anime is about getting things done. A silly show like Zero is, well, fantasy-escape porn, and it doesn&#8217;t pretend to not be something else. Of course when you stick a bitchy character in a porn it&#8217;s to broaden the appeal of your porn, although one may wonder if that is a moot point in Zero&#8217;s adaptation. Kirche probably made a lot more sense in the novels, I&#8217;d guess (not having read them).</p>
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		<title>By: Hige</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Hige</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-55</guid>
		<description>The thing about tsundere characters going soft never bothered me, and I am prone to teeth-gnashing feminist moments (though, like you, I&#039;m more about generalised equality rather than being one sex is better than the other). Because, when tsundere is done properly, the character is demonstrating human insecurities rather than being the cold, hard face of Empowerment. I never really feel betrayed when the inevitable soft moment comes because tsundere characters never have that much &#039;feminist merit&#039; (urgh, hate that phrase) to start with. They&#039;re more about defences we put around ourselves out of fear and insecurity. There&#039;s probably a lot to be said about it always being female characters that are tsun-tsun (or perhaps the lack of a male equivalent label) but I barely watch enough anime with those archetypes to start with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing about tsundere characters going soft never bothered me, and I am prone to teeth-gnashing feminist moments (though, like you, I&#8217;m more about generalised equality rather than being one sex is better than the other). Because, when tsundere is done properly, the character is demonstrating human insecurities rather than being the cold, hard face of Empowerment. I never really feel betrayed when the inevitable soft moment comes because tsundere characters never have that much &#8216;feminist merit&#8217; (urgh, hate that phrase) to start with. They&#8217;re more about defences we put around ourselves out of fear and insecurity. There&#8217;s probably a lot to be said about it always being female characters that are tsun-tsun (or perhaps the lack of a male equivalent label) but I barely watch enough anime with those archetypes to start with.</p>
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		<title>By: bettynoire</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>bettynoire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-54</guid>
		<description>The exaggerated tsundere can also be awesome, though. Louise in Zero no Tsukaima, for example, is like 90% of the humor. Agreed for the most part though. Tsunderes are best when mixed thoroughly, which sounds delicious even without my chocolate/peanut butter metaphor, har har.

Entirely dependant women is not something that I understand the appeal of... I mean. People want a lover and a companion, not a child, or something similar. Even having just typed that I realize I&#039;m being too optimistic about people. *sigh*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The exaggerated tsundere can also be awesome, though. Louise in Zero no Tsukaima, for example, is like 90% of the humor. Agreed for the most part though. Tsunderes are best when mixed thoroughly, which sounds delicious even without my chocolate/peanut butter metaphor, har har.</p>
<p>Entirely dependant women is not something that I understand the appeal of&#8230; I mean. People want a lover and a companion, not a child, or something similar. Even having just typed that I realize I&#8217;m being too optimistic about people. *sigh*</p>
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		<title>By: TheBigN</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBigN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-53</guid>
		<description>The tsundere is interesting, because if played to extremes, it can be hella annoying.  What springs up to mind is Naru from &lt;I&gt;Love Hina&lt;/I&gt; for me, though I&#039;m not sure how accurate that is as an example in this case.  I can be turned off pretty easily to the tsundere aesthetic when things are off on either side; either the person is too tsun or too dere, and it&#039;s hard to find a right balance.  The best tsunderes for me are probably the ones where it&#039;s not made &lt;b&gt;painfully&lt;/b&gt; aware of the duplicitous behavior.  But each person&#039;s preferences vary with that. 

And I&#039;d like my significant female other (if I ever manage to be so lucky) to be able to take care of herself, especially when life gets rough. We can get through it together, but if need be, we can get along just find by ourselves. That sort of thing~</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tsundere is interesting, because if played to extremes, it can be hella annoying.  What springs up to mind is Naru from <i>Love Hina</i> for me, though I&#8217;m not sure how accurate that is as an example in this case.  I can be turned off pretty easily to the tsundere aesthetic when things are off on either side; either the person is too tsun or too dere, and it&#8217;s hard to find a right balance.  The best tsunderes for me are probably the ones where it&#8217;s not made <b>painfully</b> aware of the duplicitous behavior.  But each person&#8217;s preferences vary with that. </p>
<p>And I&#8217;d like my significant female other (if I ever manage to be so lucky) to be able to take care of herself, especially when life gets rough. We can get through it together, but if need be, we can get along just find by ourselves. That sort of thing~</p>
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		<title>By: Anime Diet &#187; &#8220;I&#8217;m Only Interested In 2D Girls!&#8221;: On Lust, Animated Desire, and Gender Expectations</title>
		<link>http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Anime Diet &#187; &#8220;I&#8217;m Only Interested In 2D Girls!&#8221;: On Lust, Animated Desire, and Gender Expectations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bettynoire.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/gender-in-anime-the-unloved-or-how-i-learned-to-trust-fandom-and-love-tsundere/#comment-52</guid>
		<description>[...] articles about anime and gender across the blogosphere. Visit here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here (for now) for what others [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] articles about anime and gender across the blogosphere. Visit here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here (for now) for what others [...]</p>
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